Notes & Comments
February 2005 - December 2007

The information given on the family tree below, although broadly correct, is shaky on detail, and well overdue for revision.
see below

16 November, 2006. Mr Terry Dowinton, of Guernsey, has now generously informed me that: "Marie Monamy married Maurice Perchard at St Andrews Church, Guernsey, on 15th September 1670 (and had at least three children)." He currently believes that she was the daughter of André Monamy [the Jurat] and his first wife, Michelle Dobrée and was baptized 12th March 1645. The tree below therefore needs correction: see revised tree, here.

10 January, 2008. Very many additional items of information, and several corrections of detail, have now been provided by Mr Downinton. Click.


note on guernsey politics

° The proliferation of Andrés in the Monamy family annals is indeed extremely confusing. In an attempt at further clarification, they are enumerated here:

André 1. Born in Jersey circa 1547. (IGI). Died in Guernsey, 1591. Name also written Andrieu Mon Amy, as in the Registre footing this page. Son of Étienne Monamy of St Saviour's, Jersey, who was born circa 1516 (?); and his wife, Benoiste Aubin, married 1537. (IGI). Established in Guernsey at the latest by 1569. Married [1] Elizabeth Perrin, 29th of June 1572. Married [2] Bertranne Estur, daughter of Nicolas Estur and Marie de la Marche, on 17th of November 1577. Four children with second wife.
André 2. Born 11 June 1587. Son of André 1 by Bertranne Estur. Apparently died young, unmarried, no children.
André 3. "André the Jurat". Born 19th August 1612, died 1680. Son of Elie Monamy and Suzanne Martin; grandson of (1); and nephew of (2). Married [1] Michelle Dobrée, 22nd June 1634 ; [2] Anne Le Febvre, date of this second marriage unknown; but it must have been before 1652. Probably two children by Michelle Dobrée; and at least 3 more children by Anne Le Febvre.
André 4. Born 7 November 1641, who must have died as an infant. Son of (3) by Michelle Dobrée. Thanks to Terry Downinton, it is now known that his sister, Marie, was baptized 12 March, 1645.
André 5. Said to have been born May 1648. It is not certain that this is the same André who may have died between about 1727 and 1732, following Graham Guille's note that there is evidence by 1732 that the Guernsey "house and property were seized by creditors to settle his debts, and the property finally passed out of Monamy ownership." However, an André was the son of (3) by Anne Le Febvre. He married Marie, daughter of Elie Le Bouteillier, Advocate, and Anne Tramalier, on 2 August 1692, at Saint Mary Abchurch, London. Marie was buried 27th November 1751. She may have been living in Guernsey for her last 20 years as a widow; and would have been about 89 years old when she died. Interestingly, the surname Tramalier seems to be unique to Guernsey.
André 5a. Since it is odd that Pierre, born 1652, appears to have been the heir of André 3, and would therefore have been his eldest surviving son, it seems reasonably possible that André 5 died in childhood, and that there was yet another André, born after Pierre. At the time of his marriage in London, 2 August 1692, André is said to have been aged "abt 31", which means he would have been born in 1661. If the André who married Marie Le Bouteillier was born in 1648, he would have been 44 years old when he married. Not impossible, of course. Graham Guille remarks that Marie "apparently must have been many years his junior". Marie Le Bouteillier would have been born about 1662, if she was 30 in 1692.
André 6. Son of Aaron Monamy with Marie Ricart; married Marie Hubert. Nothing else yet known; and even these details are somewhat uncertain. There is, however, yet another fugitive report of an André Monamy born in Guernsey on 7th November, 1664, of unrecorded parentage. This would be too late for a son of Aaron Monamy.

Further Comments

Additional details according to the IGI --- a very useful, but patchy, and not infallible source. Unfamiliar names, in particular, are not infrequently mis-spelled, or misinterpreted:

Perrenelle Monamy, of St Saviour, Jersey, was born about 1534; and buried 23 August 1602. She married Oliver Vivian 8 Sep 1555 in St Saviour, Jersey. As she was certainly the sister of André 1, since she was named as such in his will, 1590, and therefore almost certainly the daughter of Étienne Monamy, the information that Étienne married Benoiste Aubin in 1537 requires some more explanation; eg, that he had a previous wife, or that Perrenelle (Perronelle/Parnell) was born out of wedlock, or there is some error in the conjectural dates supplied. If she was born in 1537 or 1538, not 1534, she would have been about 17 at the time of her marriage.

Col de Guérin's notes on the will of André 1 include the information that he bequeathed: "To my nephew Edward Gaignepain 10/-", which suggests that, in addition to Perronelle, André 1 had an otherwise unrecorded sister (died before 1590?) married to a man named Gaignepain/Gagnepain. The IGI offers no help here, except to establish that Gagnepain is a fairly rare name, anywhere.

There is no record in the IGI on-line of Clement Monamy's marriage to Marie Ahier, or, indeed, of the existence of Clement Monamy. However, André 1 willed to his "brother Clement Monamy my gowne being black faced with Taffeta", so Clement's existence in 1590 is certain. The rest of the information on the tree below is, on the other hand, extremely uncertain. I cannot now recall where these names and relationships have come from. What is extraordinary is that the marriage of Elizabeth Monamy to David Poore was recorded well before the discovery of Elizabeth Freinde's marriage to Dauie Poore, on the IGI. If these aren't the same people, given the date of 1602, then the coincidence is remarkable.

A Nicolas Ahier, born about 1545, of St Clement, Jersey, married a Beneste Monamy. They had a daughter, named Marie, who was christened on 24 Jan 1571, at St Clement, Jersey. This Marie Ahier subsequently married Jacques Le Tubelin on 20 Sep 1600, at St Saviour's, Jersey. Nicolas Ahier and Beneste also had a son, Aaron Ahier, who was christened on 15 August 1584, at St Clement, Jersey.

It seems to me rather likely that Beneste Monamy is another daughter of Étienne Monamy and his wife Benoiste; and a conjectural birth date for her of about 1549 would fit nicely. So would the names of her two known children, Marie and Aaron.

A Moise Ahier was born about 1555 in St Saviour, Jersey. He married a Marie Durel on 28 Jan 1580, at St Saviour, Jersey. Their daughter, Marie Ahier, was christened on 7 Sep 1589, in St Saviour, Jersey.

New tree (2006) for descendants of André the Jurat

Since the involvement of the Monamys with the Dobrées, via André's marriage to Michelle Dobrée in 1634, evidently had negative repercussions (see below) following the Restoration, 1660, when things must have turned decidedly sour for André the Jurat, it seemed worthwhile to try to find out a little more about Samuel, William and Peter Dobrée.

The discovery that Michelle was 33 years old in 1634 when she married André, who was 22, was a surprise. Peter/Pierre Dobrée, Samuel, and William, seem to have been her brothers; although the names repeat in subsequent generations, so their identities are not totally certain.

The note, above left, appended to the list of Dobrée children, quotes de Guérin: on the evidence later collected, it is probably not entirely accurate.

Further points of interest from Graham Guille's account
especially those with some bearing on the fortunes of the Monamy family in London.

Quote: "In his notes de Guérin records the birth of André senior's second son, Pierre, as having been born on 7th March 1752 but he surely must mean 7th March 1652. The next child was a daughter, Marie. The last mention of her so far located is that in 1680 she was unmarried. Lastly came Catherine. No record of her birth seems to have survived, but in 1680 she married Henry Perkins junior on the 29th of December. Henry was the son of Henry Perkins and Marie Hansone."

A Marie Monamy is recorded by the IGI as having married Alexander De Soulies on 5 Dec 1689 at St. Saviour, Guernsey. Graham Guille notes that the last mention known to him of Marie, daughter of Andre the Jurat, is that she was unmarried in 1680. My record of her having married a Maurice Perchard may be an error. Nevertheless, see information provided by Terry Dowinton, above. However, it also it seems likely that she is the person who married Alexander De Soulies in 1689. This might have been a second marriage, for which she used her maiden name.

Quote, from Graham Guille: "By 1686 the records show the house at St Jacques in the ownership of the heirs of one Pierre Monamy, presumably André's brother (and son of André the Jurat died 1680). One can only speculate why the property did not pass to the eldest son, André." One answer would be that this surviving André was not in fact the eldest son, and that he was born in 1661.


The above item, inserted June 2011, comes from the Marriage Allegations published by the Harleian Society, Vol 34, 1892. "The allegation (or affidavit) was a formal statement by the applicant about the ages, marital status and places of residence of the parties, usually including some statement of the groom's occupation, to which was added an oath that there was no formal impediment "of kindred or alliance" to the marriage. The exact ages of the parties may appear but sometimes only a rough age is given. If either of the parties was under 21 then a formal written statement of approval by the appropriate parent or guardian was required." See here. In this case Pierre/Peter Monamy appears to have shed a couple of years, and Dorothy Gilbert to have gained a couple, thus bringing the apparent ten year gap in their ages closer together.

click here for more on st botolph's

Comment on above chart. It is inconceivable that Pierre Monamy of Guernsey is not one and the same as Peter Monamy, Merchant, of London; married to Dorothy Gilbert, and father of the above 5 children. He was clearly involved in business in both Guernsey and London during his lifetime. Apart from being imprisoned in the Westminster Gatehouse for a few weeks in 1676, he was involved in a dispute over his inheritance from his father in 1680-82. He is described in 1682 as "the heir of Andrew Monamy", in connection with a case which began 17 March, 1661. Two members of a family Dobrée, Samuel and William, had put in a suit against Andrew Monamy (ie André the Jurat) and Peter Dobrée in claim of a sum amounting to 3,362 livres, 17 sols, 3 deniers. This sounds like a substantial tally of £sd today, which André and Peter Dobrée had apparently jointly borrowed in 1656. The case could no doubt be studied in more detail at the PRO. See CSPD Charles II, below.

Between 1676 and 1681 Pierre/Peter fathered five children in London. He is mentioned as "Merchant" in 1696, when his son Peter was apprenticed to William Clark; though this is perhaps not incontrovertible proof that he was alive at that date. After this there is no further information. Because of Graham Guille's finding that in 1686 "the house at St Jacques [was] in the ownership of the heirs of one Pierre Monamy", the suspicion must be that he had died before 1686. In this year the heirs of Pierre would presumably have been his widow Dorothy, aged 26; his daughter Ann, aged 8; and his son Peter, the future painter, aged 5. The other three children, Peter Gilbert (died before 1681), Charity and James, can be discounted.

The large brood engendered by James and Ann Gilbert requires some comment. Of particular significance is the occurrence of the name Charity, born in 1665. There are several other Charity Gilberts recorded by the IGI, and it appears to confirm that Charity Monamy was therefore, indeed, the daughter of Dorothy and not Elizabeth. The appearance of the name Elizabeth is in fact a complete mystery, which can only be attributed to the carelessness of a clerk. The children Joan (4) and George (6), baptised at St Olave's may well be cuckoos in this nest, but James seems to fit both the naming pattern and bi-annual birth pattern. The repetition of the names Thomas and James indicates that the elder children had died young. See also here.

André/Andrew Monamy: André in Guernsey; Andrew in London.

Quote, from Graham Guille: "André Monamy ... [was] ... registered on the 2nd of July 1705, before the Royal Court as being the guardian of one George Guille, son of George."

Graham also notes that in 1706 the Livre de Perchage entry records that André Monamy, son of André the Jurat, purchased the property at St Jacques from his brother Pierre's heirs. André acquired the meadow, the Pré de Gaulle, gardens, vegetable plots, a barn and a stack yard, together with the main house and courtyard of St Jacques, which had up until that time previously consisted of a number of small parcels of land. Also acquired at that time were a number of small fields and other lands at St Jacques to the east of a nearby roadway, Foss André. By 1732 the house and property were seized by creditors to settle his debts, and the property finally passed out of Monamy ownership.

The life of André/Andrew Monamy, of Guernsey and London, is much better documented than the life of his brother Pierre/Peter. An outline can reasonably be pieced together, thus:

1661: Guernsey

On balance, this appears to be the most probable year of André's birth.

1687: London: 9 Aug

A letter from Andrew Monamy to Lord Hatton requesting a licence to trade in wool. [BM: f 285; 29 562]

1689: London: 7 Dec
[Harleian Soc & IGI]

Andrew Monamy, with Marie Caouet, witnesses the baptism of Samuel Winn:

1691: London: 5 Jun

Passes issued for Mr Daniel Le Febvre and Andrew Monamy to go to Harwich and embark for Holland. [CSPD].

1692: London: 2 Aug
[Harleian Soc; Vol 31]

1696: London:
30 Jun
4 Aug

Andrew Monamy recorded as trading in salt and wool, in partnership with Daniel Le Febvre.
BM 253;     BM 279 [29 566];     BM: 32 734 318;     BM: 32 693 322;     BM: 32 986 226

1705: Guernsey: 2 Jul

André Monamy ... [was] ... registered on the 2nd of July 1705, before the Royal Court as being the guardian of one George Guille, son of George. See Graham Guille, here.

1706: Guernsey

The Livre de Perchage entry for this year records that André Monamy, son of André the Jurat, purchased the property at St Jacques from his brother Pierre's heirs. See above.

1727: Guernsey

There is a document in the Guernsey Greffe mentioning André Monamy at this date. It has not been examined.

1732: Guernsey

By 1732 the house and property were seized by creditors to settle debts, and the property finally passed out of Monamy ownership. See above.

Taking the above details and new information into account, it is possible to construct a new scenario for the early years of Peter Monamy's life, in which his Uncle Andrew plays a much more significant part. Suppose Pierre/Peter Monamy died in 1686, when the St Jacques property is said to have been in the possession of his heirs, who would have been his widow and two small children (at least). The following year, 1687, provides the first evidence of André/Andrew's trading activities, when he would have been aged about 26. Could it be that Andrew was now taking on the bread-winning role of his deceased brother, and providing support for his widow and children, as well as administering the property at St Jacques on their behalf?

The remaining dates tie in quite well with what we know about Peter the Painter's early life, as well as his middle years up to the apparent crisis point in about 1732. In 1692, when Peter was eleven, Andrew married Marie Le Bouteillier, but the marriage was evidently childless. In 1696 Peter was apprenticed to William Clarke, and in the same year his Uncle Andrew was clearly extremely active in his trading business. Peter was made free in 1704, and in 1705 Andrew took on the protective guardianship of another youngster, George Guille. This looks as if it was in Guernsey, and from this date on Andrew seems to be spending much time in Guernsey. His purchase of the St Jacques property, in 1706, must have been from Peter the Painter (and perhaps his sister, Ann, married to John Randell). Money at this juncture would have been welcome to Peter, who had just become a father, and was setting up in trade on London Bridge.

During Peter's years of prosperity in London and Westminster, 1715-1730, it is not at all improbable that he was continuing to benefit from the support of his childless uncle and aunt. Since the indications are that André/Andrew probably died shortly before 1732, his identification with the mysterious Stephen Monomee, who is reported in the Gentleman's Magazine for 1731 as having died in Chelsea, grows a little more likely. The apparent collapse of financial security of the Monamy household, the added expenditure assumed by Peter's probable move to the house "next to King Henry VII's chapel" and the sales drive implied by the mezzotint production in 1731, the death of Lord Torrington, who was Peter's only presumed major patron, in 1733, the establishment of the Scott-Walpole Club, and the loss of the East India Company commission to Scott and Lambert, in 1732, all point to a combination of difficulties which assailed Peter at this point in time.

Who is this man ?

back to unrevised family tree above

On the first Sunday in April, 1569, Andrieu Mon Amy was one of a group of eight Channel Islanders who professed their faith and were admitted to Holy Communion in the "Wallonne" church at Southampton. This church was established par patente du Roy Edouard Sixe et de la Reine Elizabeth.

petitions & litigation
maison monamy by graham guille
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